1. Resolved: That the Universe was created by a divine being.
Affirmative: Kenz, Mo, Kelsey
Negative: UC1, Olive
2. Resolved: That modern Americans were sent to Earth in the circumstances that they were because God knew that they were the best people for that period.
Affirmative: Mo
Negative: UC1
People I'm Not Sure About: Kenz, Kelsey, Olive
3. Resolved: That religion does more bad than good.
Affirmative: UC1, Olive
Negative: Kenz, Kelsey, Mo
Let the debate(s) begin! Feel free to argue in new posts, comments, whatever. Ready... Set... Go!
4 years ago
14 comments:
Okay, I'll argue resolution two. This sounds like bigotry to me, because you're making the assumption that God feels Americans deserve to be born into luckier circumstances. Therefore, it follows that God thinks Americans are better than other people, say the Sudanese, or whatever. American's are NOT better than the rest of the world - if that were the case, why are there so many jerks and idiots in our society? If you'll allow me to include my political beliefs, think about the presidency. I think we both agree that Bush has done way more harm than good. So if that's the case, why did God decide that he should be born wealthy and lucky and destined for the presidency? Assuming that God put us in America and gave us good situations means claiming our superiority over 90 percent of the population. We are not "the chosen few." We're people, just like everybody else.
I think...I may agree with Katie, actually. As I mentioned a few posts before, I think that we may have been put here because we are the pathetic few who just can't handle it out in the real world. Being ripped out of our comfort zone before we're ready would also rip us apart from God. Then again, if we're born into Sudan we wouldn't have this lush comfort zone established, so we wouldn't be ripped out of it.
Plus, it's almost a biased way of looking at our position- who says the people in Sudan aren't blessed in extraordinary ways too? Like, sure the war is hard. But think about the American soldiers fighting in Iraq, or the families of those who died in 9-11. How is being them here any better for being a Sudanese man who saw horrific events go on but was brought to America and introduced to the love of God by Mama Jean, a woman who accepted him as her own?
Like...capeisch?
Thank you, Kenz. You're right, it is quite possible to be very blessed, regardless of where you're born. I have to admit, I'd rather be born here in my sheltered lifestyle than stuck in the middle of a genocide, but that doesn't mean that other people (like the Sudanese - this is clearly my example of the week) can't live decent lives.
I have another bone to pick with you, Moriah. You said that at one point or another we must go through trials to grow, which is why the world isn't perfect. Well, here's the thing: it's really easy to say that if you aren't the one going through all those trials. I mean, think about it. You and I live a nice, sheltered lifestyle. We make mistakes, and we learn from them, and we grow as people, and it's all good. We're capable of growing after our small trials. But what about those other people who are living right now through horrors that you can't even imagine? (I'm going to use my Sudan example again here). What if your mother died because someone just walked into your house and shot her? What if you watched your sister tortured for no reason at all? What if you were raped a dozen times because a group of soldiers felt like "having a little fun?" What if someone stuck a gun in your hand and forced you to fight in a war? What if you were starving every day and people fought over basic resources like water all the time? What if you were rounded up with the rest of your ethnic group and systematically killed, just because someone was prejudiced against your race or your religion? Look at these things, Moriah, and then look at the problems you have in your life. Now tell me that God is willing to let people live through horrendous, torturous lives, just for the sake of bettering them. How is getting raped or tortured going to help you grow as a person? Why does God want that for us if he loves us so much? Or does he just not love the people who go through that sort of thing every day?
Katie, the people who go through horrible stuff like that grow the most. There's a reason that those from WWII are called the greatest generation. When asked when people are closest to God, most answer "When I'm going through trials."
Everybody's trials are different. Some people get trials in the form of being born in Sudan. Others get trials in the form of parents divorcing, emotional problems and financial difficulties.
Facing hardships such as rape and torture brings one closer to God, because only He can heal those wounds. They help us learn that we are powerless and that everything is in God's hands. They help us learn that he is in charge of all and will help us through everything.
You make it sound like God just sits there, indifferently while his children suffer. Not so. Do you know how many times we hear of God weeping in the Bible? A lot. He loves his children and hates to see them hurt. It's like when a parent must give thier child immunizations. The child can't see what good it will do and is in pain, and even though the parent wants to stop the pain for the child, the parent can't because they know that the immunization is going to help the child in the long run. The most they can do is hold thier hand along the way.
Moriah, do you really think it's fair to say that? Because you really don't have to go through all that stuff mentioned above. You can't comprehend it. Neither can I! It ruins lives, Mo. Do you honestly think pain and suffering make you a better person? Because if that's the case, why not be an ascetic? Wouldn't that bring you closer to God than anything?
1. I can't speak for the world. Nor has it asked me to. But Christ has experienced all that. He can speak for all the world.
2. Um, yes. What doesn't kill you only makes you stronger. Why do you think suffering with someone makes you so much closer to them? You get closer to God because He's the one who helped you through that. You accept his love and hand in your life.
What about people who suffer so much that they commit suidice? That's one of the worst sins there is, right? Are they just bad people because they couldn't deal with everything?
Even before I learned that suicide was one of the greatest sins there is, I have always thought suicide was the easy way out. Sure one might be willing to die for something, but are they willing to live for it? Dying takes a short while and little effort, living takes a long time and tons of effort.
Suicide is throwing away the greatest gift you have. Suicidal people can get help, which they should. I stand behind what I said before.
But what if they've had such a traumatic life that dying is better than living for them? Should we blame them?
Where would dying be better than living?
Well
A) going to heaven is WAAAY better than any life we could ever hope to have, though I'm not sure if those who commit suicide go to heaven...like, it's part of taking up our own cross for Him that we stick it out here on Earth, you know?
B) All sin is the same in God's eyes, guys. There's no "i'm more holy than Al Capone because I just lie to everyone but he robbed banks" NO! They're all equal, except for blasphemy. This is why it kinda aggravates me that the church is often like, "omg, having sex is the absolutely worst thing we can do!" because it's like, nuh-uh! But still we have to admit, which are we more tempted to do: have sex or rob a bank? Well, you get the point.
I agree with Kenz. And what about if you're, say, being held prisoner by some militia somewhere and they're torturing you constantly, and there's no hope of escape? Would you rather live or die?
but I'm also saying suicide ISN'T the answer!!! I mean, since Jesus has died for us, we have to accept His gift and in turn lay down our lives for Him- in other words, live them like they're not ours. I'm not sure about all the extremes, but I'm pretty sure God doesn't want us to say, "Oh dang, I didn't win the student council election! God hates me, I'm gonna kill myself!!!" NO. I mean, sometimes we have to accept hardships!
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